[KI-LC] [BoT] Revised DRAFT: Policy for Joining Groups and Group Discussion Lists
Roger Martin
roger.martin at corp.aol.com
Tue Jul 7 08:19:55 PDT 2009
OK. you are correct...I did reverse them. It should be /"Moderate: the
same as "Administer"
with the exception that *a Moderator* cannot change List configuration
variables."
/configuration variable."
J. Trent Adams wrote:
> Roger -
>
> Thanks for the quick turn-around.
>
> One nit in-line below. Otherwise I'm good to go.
>
> - Trent
>
>
> Roger Martin wrote:
>
>> Trent,
>>
>> see inline below.
>>
>> ....RogerM
>>
>> J. Trent Adams wrote:
>>
>>> Roger -
>>>
>>> In order to present the policy to the LC for approval on Wednesday's
>>> call, I'm proof-reading the version on the wiki, and making sure it
>>> closed the open issues from the threads:
>>>
>>> http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/x/BACh
>>>
>>> Assuming that this is the most up-to-date version (so we can simply
>>> point everyone at it rather than continuing to circulate docs), I do
>>> have a couple last-minute comments:
>>>
>>>
>> [RM] Yes, http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/x/BACh is the most
>> recent, up-to-date version.
>>
>>
>>> 1. It looks like the term "Contributor" still shows up
>>> in the second bullet of Section 4:
>>>
>>> "Anyone may Subscribe to any List with the
>>> provision that only Contributors may post to
>>> the List."
>>>
>>> Am I right in assuming that this should be
>>> updated to read:
>>>
>>> "Anyone may Subscribe to any List with the
>>> provision that only Participants of the Group
>>> may post to the List."
>>>
>>>
>> [RM] Yes, it should be "Participants". I had that change in the
>> Word/PDF version but missed it when I updated the Wiki version.
>> Thanks for catching it.
>>
>>
>>> 2. As there is now a distinction between "administer"
>>> and "moderate" called out in Section 5, can we
>>> add the definitions for each that are based on what
>>> Brett pulled from the mail software? Here are my
>>> suggestions:
>>>
>>>
>> [RM] I don't see the necessity of adding definitions for "administer"
>> and "moderate" but have no objection to doing do.
>>
>> Would it be correct to define "Moderate: the same as "Administer"
>> with the exception that an Administrator cannot change List
>> configuration variable." (I am assuming that is correct. Is it?)
>>
>
> I think you've got 'em reversed, but essentially correct. "Administer"
> includes list config rights, while "Moderate" does not.
>
>
>>> "Administer: Full control of the Group List
>>> functionality /such as changing List configuration
>>> variables, tend to pending requests, including the
>>> approval or rejection of held subscription requests,
>>> and disposing of held postings, etc."/
>>>
>>> "Moderate: Limited control of the Group List
>>> functionality /such as tending to pending requests,
>>> including the approval or rejection of held
>>> subscription requests, and disposing of held
>>> postings, etc./ Changing List configuration variables
>>> are not included."
>>>
>>> 3. Finally, how would you suggest addressing the issue
>>> that Lucy raised:
>>>
>>> "with this caveat, list administrators can and should
>>> forward on the the list any announcements that would
>>> be on interest. This should clearly be a forward (over
>>> the admin's email address) and not an approved
>>> posting over the original address."
>>>
>>> I'm assuming that what she's talking about is the
>>> forwarding of publicly-available information, and
>>> thus isn't encumbered by some other IPR regime.
>>> In this case, does this need to be called out in the
>>> policy, or is it blatantly obvious this is OK to do?
>>>
>>>
>> [RM] I don't think this needs to be included in the "Policy for
>> Joining Groups and Group Discussion Lists." It is, however, useful
>> operating guidance that perhaps could be articulated elsewhere.
>>
>>
>>> Looking forward to resolution.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Trent
>>>
>>>
>>> Roger Martin wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I don't believe that additional text is necessary since the Chair can
>>>> normally delegate any duty.
>>>>
>>>> However, if you think it should be there, go ahead and add it to the
>>>> wiki text.
>>>>
>>>> ..rogerM
>>>>
>>>> Brett McDowell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> How about we add a parenthetical modifier to your proposed text so it
>>>>> reads "moderated by the Chair of the Group (or his/her delegate)" ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Brett McDowell | +1.413.652.1248 | http://info.brettmcdowell.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Roger Martin<roger.martin at corp.aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Based on this discussion it appears we have agreed to the following changes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reword the first bullet in Section (5) to read:
>>>>>> * All Lists are administered by Staff and moderated by the secretary Chair
>>>>>> of the Group to which the List is associated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Delete the sixth bullet in section (5)
>>>>>> * Group Lists are not moderated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have made these (and my original rewrite) changes to the wiki:
>>>>>> http://kantarainitiative.org/confluence/display/LC/Groups+Email+Discussion+List+Policy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...rogerM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brett McDowell wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And I'd add to that... if someone attempts to post to the list and the
>>>>>> topic is appropriate/legitimate, I would hope/encourage the Chair to
>>>>>> forward it to community@ for a "real" discussion (not to mention
>>>>>> reaching out to that person and suggesting they actually join the
>>>>>> Group).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brett McDowell | +1.413.652.1248 | http://info.brettmcdowell.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Lucy Lynch<lynch at isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +1 ,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> with this caveat, list administrators can and should forward
>>>>>> on the the list any announcements that would be on interest.
>>>>>> This should clearly be a forward (over the admin's email address)
>>>>>> and not an approved posting over the original address.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lucy Lynch
>>>>>> Director, Trust and Identity Initiatives
>>>>>> Internet Society (ISOC )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jul 2009, Brett McDowell wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given all the issues I've noticed being raised in the development of this
>>>>>> policy, it's probably best to simply not allow any posting to the lists
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> non-participants in the group.
>>>>>> How do folks feel about tightening this up to that level?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brett McDowell | +1.413.652.1248 | http://info.brettmcdowell.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Joni Brennan <joni at ieee-isto.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Brett.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe it would benefit us to develop operational policies (similar to
>>>>>> what the LC has done) to explain the implications and responsibilities
>>>>>> associated with the WG/DG Roles. This policy would answer questions like
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> When can I 'accept' a rejected message'?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, as there is no DG Secretary role this item would fall under the DG
>>>>>> Vice-chair or Chair responsibilties.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Finally, we should consider putting a requested change in the LC queue to
>>>>>> update the Operating Procedures to reflect this item under the
>>>>>> appropriate
>>>>>> role duties.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joni
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Brett McDowell
>>>>>> <email at brettmcdowell.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is what the MailMan software documentation says in this regard:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *There are two ownership roles associated with each mailing list. The
>>>>>> **list
>>>>>> administrators** are the people who have ultimate control over all
>>>>>> parameters of this mailing list. They are able to change any list
>>>>>> configuration variable available through these administration web
>>>>>> pages.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *The **list moderators** have more limited permissions; they are not
>>>>>> able
>>>>>> to change any list configuration variable, but they are allowed to tend
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> pending administration requests, including approving or rejecting held
>>>>>> subscription requests, and disposing of held postings. Of course, the
>>>>>> **list
>>>>>> administrators** can also tend to pending requests.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brett McDowell | +1.413.652.1248 | http://info.brettmcdowell.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Roger Martin
>>>>>> <roger.martin at corp.aol.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm out of my field when it comes to mail list administration and
>>>>>> standard terminology
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would anyone on this thread care to enlighten me (us).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do we need to define those terms?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ....roger M
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> J. Trent Adams wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In order to avoid any misunderstandings, would it make sense to define
>>>>>> "Moderate" and "Administer"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Trent
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Martin wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joni,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had a conversation with Brett about this issue because I was not
>>>>>> understanding the motivations for proposing this change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Based on that discussion, I understand the motivation for this change
>>>>>> to be that:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Staff will administer all Lists, but there is a valid concern
>>>>>> that a requirement to have Staff moderate all Lists will be a
>>>>>> significant burden on Staff resources.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * We can configure each List so any email received from a
>>>>>> non-Participant gets an auto-reply that says "You do not have
>>>>>> permission to post to this List. To do so, you must sign the
>>>>>> Participation Agreement for this Group." (or something similar)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * It may be helpful for the leadership of a Group to know (1) who
>>>>>> joins and who leaves a list as an Observer, and (2) who attempts
>>>>>> to post as an Observer. As a result, you proposed that a member
>>>>>> of the Group Leadership (Group secretary) be assigned moderator
>>>>>> status in order to be able to track this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Under the Kantara Initiative Bylaws, a Group is not required to have a
>>>>>> secretary. However, the Bylaws do state that when "a WG does not have
>>>>>> a secretary it is the responsibility of the Chair to ensure that those
>>>>>> duties."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given the above, I believe the following changes will be sufficient to
>>>>>> achieve what you are proposing:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Reword the first bullet in Section (5) to read:
>>>>>> * All Lists are administered by Staff and moderated by the
>>>>>> secretary of the Group to which the List is associated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Delete the sixth bullet in section (5)
>>>>>> * Group Lists are not moderated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...rogerM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joni Brennan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Roger,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have drafted the suggested addition below:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Section 5
>>>>>> * All Lists are administered and moderated by the Staff. In addition
>>>>>> to the Staff moderator, each list will be moderated by the Secretary
>>>>>> officer responsible for that list's associated group. The Secretary
>>>>>> moderator function provides an additional layer of operational
>>>>>> information to the officers of each group.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please feel free to word smith my suggestion as you may see fit.
>>>>>> Also, as an FYI to the group, we did find the bug causing Rogers edit
>>>>>> access woes and have resolved the issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joni
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Roger Martin
>>>>>> <roger.martin at corp.aol.com <mailto:roger.martin at corp.aol.com>
>>>>>> <roger.martin at corp.aol.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have attached the revised draft of the "Policy for Joining
>>>>>> Groups and Group Discussion Lists" based on the discussions of
>>>>>> the past two days. I still don't have edit permission on the
>>>>>> wiki page, but will post the new draft there when I do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Additional Discussion:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Joni posted a proposal to one officer from each WG and DG a a
>>>>>> moderator of any Lists associated with that WG or DG. It's not
>>>>>> clear from the email discussion what the resolution of this
>>>>>> proposal is. As a result I did not make any changes to the
>>>>>> text. If we need to make that change, would someone please post
>>>>>> the specific text changes to be made?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Are there any further edits needed before we move to adopt
>>>>>> this as a Kantara Initiative policy?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...rogerM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /--
>>>>>> ******************************************
>>>>>> Roger Martin, Director of Standards
>>>>>> AOL
>>>>>> 22260 Pacific Blvd 41A:A03
>>>>>> Dulles, VA 20166
>>>>>> email: roger.martin at corp.aol.com <mailto:roger.martin at corp.aol.com>
>>>>>> <roger.martin at corp.aol.com>
>>>>>> AIM: rjmartin99
>>>>>> phone: 703-265-6203
>>>>>> mobile: 703-389-1547
>>>>>> *******************************************/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Trustees mailing list
>>>>>> Trustees at kantarainitiative.org
>>>>>> <mailto:Trustees at kantarainitiative.org>
>>>>>> <Trustees at kantarainitiative.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/trustees_kantarainitiative.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Joni Brennan
>>>>>> IEEE-ISTO
>>>>>> Liberty Alliance Project
>>>>>> Director of Operations
>>>>>> voice:+1 732-226-4223
>>>>>> email: joni @ projectliberty.org <http://projectliberty.org>
>>>>>> <http://projectliberty.org>
>>>>>> email: joni @ ieee-isto.org <http://ieee-isto.org>
>>>>>> <http://ieee-isto.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> LC mailing
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> LC mailing list
>>>>>> LC at kantarainitiative.org
>>>>>> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/lc_kantarainitiative.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Joni Brennan
>>>>>> IEEE-ISTO
>>>>>> Liberty Alliance Project
>>>>>> Director of Operations
>>>>>> voice:+1 732-226-4223
>>>>>> email: joni @ projectliberty.org
>>>>>> email: joni @ ieee-isto.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Trustees mailing list
>>>>>> Trustees at kantarainitiative.org
>>>>>> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/trustees_kantarainitiative.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
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>>>> LC mailing list
>>>> LC at kantarainitiative.org
>>>> http://kantarainitiative.org/mailman/listinfo/lc_kantarainitiative.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
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